Rational Discussion

A fool's lips walk into a fight,

and his mouth invites a beating.

— Proverbs 18.6

Tweaked later that same day.

Buon giorno. Admit it — sometimes you want to just smack some idiot, yes? This will be the last screen shot gallery about this stuff for a while. I'm doing it one more time because I want people to be forewarned about the way these modern Internet atheists operate. Proverbs 12.15

Earlier, I showed you how I gave them a lesson in logic. Even though it is clear to anyone without a seriously diseased mind that they were wrong, they still insisted that they were right, and I was wrong. Then, this Alex character put on the brave front and started lying all over again:

My intelligent readers who have read the article know full well that I said no such thing. A comment was left making reference to the book of Psalms, but no claim of "proof" was made. But that does not stop this liar from going on another tirade.

His mockery based on dishonesty continues:

If you think you can tolerate more, click on the picture above. It will take you to the actual Twitter reference. Then click on his name. His irrational, unrestrained hatred of God and Christians is startling. Further evidence in the affirmative to answer the question I posed about atheism causing brain damage. Addendum: He is so obsessed and narcissistic, he is speculating that I made up a commenter instead of simply doing an addendum and making statements myself. Amazing. This guy must be related to Norman. (You remember Norman, the atheist troll that lies about being an atheist, obsessed with me at an unhealthy level? Addendum: Even another atheist says he's crazy.)

By the way, I've noticed that his hating friends are not interested in logic enough to check the source (my posts) and see that he is making things up. Other have posted distortions and mockeries of what I said, deliberately misunderstanding for the sake of ridiculing God — but I don't have time or the interest to show more of the same.

As an added bonus, here is a comment by another rabid atheist who is emulating Josef Stalin:

 

So many times, I have had atheist claim that they want respect, to be treated like people, not to be pigeon-holed &c. The problem is that many of the same ones that whine about being picked on are also the ones being disrespectful and giving Christians much worse treatment than they claim to receive. And oh, boy! When you catch them in a lie or show the errors in what passes as "reasoning" in their corrupted brains, you are called a liar, stupid, "fundie" and everything else except "correct". It must be humiliating for these worshipers of "reason" to be shown up by Christians!

I am constantly baffled that the quiet, thoughtful atheists who do want to have intelligent conversations (or just go on about their business while you go on about yours) will want to associate with types like this. Pleas made online to "police your own" are ignored, however. (Perhaps it is tacit approval?) I remember those atheists: "You believe in God. I believe there is no God." Maybe there was a discussion, maybe not.

So, be forewarned. If an Internet atheist wants to engage in a "rational discussion", there is a good chance he or she is up to no good. I have seen and experienced it many times. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of atheists that I would expect to be honest with me. Sure, have the discussion. Avoid groups if possible, though. They are piranhas and attack in groups. (The main one I'm referencing above is even more aggressive than some, so he'll snap and bite even when alone.) It can be good mental exercise. But be ready to drop the whole thing, because they love to waste your time with lies, tricks, traps and outright abuse. Proverbs 14.7 And yes, they do want to destroy your faith!

Which is indeed unfortunate. The God that they claim does not exist (which is a convenient excuse for engaging in immorality without fear of consequences) is a God of mercy — and justice. Hell is real. So is eternity. God showed his mercy through Jesus, but they condemn themselves by mocking and rejecting his sacrifice on the cross.

Changing Lives

Listen up. I know full well that there are people who claim to be Christians, but they live like the devil. (I have serious doubts that they ever were Christians, 1 John 2.19, Matthew 7.20-21.) For that matter, one reason that I went away from my faith for several years was because of false or nominal Christians, but never mind about that now. Like any group, there are members that do not uphold the beliefs and principles of that group. Especially if it's a large one. Seems to me that it has something to do with a simple problem, that of being human.

I'm saying this at the outset because there are people who will look for any excuse to negate Christianity, Christians, the Bible and God himself. You know the type: "I knew a guy that went to church and said he was a Christian, and he was caught stealing money". So? That means he had problems, not that God is fake. The exception does not invalidate the whole, and the exception does not become the rule.

I think I've covered the people that look for excuses to disbelieve. Now, on with what I really want to say.

God is in the business of changing lives, and his people are supposed to be going about their business of proclaiming the gospel so those lives can be changed. The short form is that if you humble yourself, admit that you have sinned, confess your sins and repent (turn away) from them, making Jesus the Lord of your life, you will be saved. And "saved" means that you will no longer be in danger of getting the justice you deserve in Hell. Instead, your place in Heaven is assured. You will become a child of God, adopted into his family.

None of this "I believe" intellectual assent nonsense. I'm not trying to just convince you of something, I'm trying to show you that you need to be committed to Christ so your heart can be changed and settle your eternal destination.

Even better, you will be transformed and become a new creation. As you grow in him, those rotten things you used to take delight in doing will lose their appeal, and their grip on enslaving you will be loosened. You life on earth can change if you let God have his way with you. If you want to discuss these things further, feel free to write to me, or use the links ("How to Get to Heaven" and "The Romans Road" links at the top right side of the page, and the "Good Person Test" in the right column).

John Schlitt was in the group Head East. He became such a druggie that he was a detriment to the band and got himself thrown out. Jesus made something of his life, and he became a minister by being the lead singer for the Christian rock band Petra (one video is here). I hope his story will speak to you.

Further Lessons in Logic

Buona sera. Decisions, decisions. Take the day off from this Weblog and work on another one that's overdue, post something very important, do something silly here — nah. I'll continue in a similar vein from yesterday's lessons in logic. Why can't people learn to think?

But first, I'll mention that the atheists in both of yesterday's examples refuse to admit error. That happens frequently, probably because they hate Christians so much, we cannot be allowed to be right, and God forbid (heh!), they cannot be wrong. (Just ask Norman. I'm wrong or lying, and he's right. Just ask him.) It's against the atheist code for an Xtian to be right, you betcha.

And now for something somewhat different. (Are these bits with the "highlighter" setting doing anything for you?)

I'll bet that atheists are glad that they get few, if any, of the sentimental religious stuff in their e-mail. I get quite a bit, and delete most of it (you'll see why in a minute). The rest of you, don't run off. This lesson in bad logic can be useful to everyone. (I wrote about the blackmail aspects of this over three years ago.)

It opens with this:

If I don't get this back, I will know you really didn't read it.

You know that I didn't read it how? If you don't get this back, all you know is that you didn't get it back. Don't go putting an argument from silence on it.

Too bad that the person who sent it to me did not know 10 people who would admit to knowing the Lord.

Some people needs lessons in thinking. Probably a product of American public schools.

IF YOU LOVE JESUS, SEND THIS TO AT LEAST 10 PEOPLE INCLUDING THE PERSON WHO SENT IT TO YOU!

First, STOP SHOUTING! Second, what if I'm busy or just don't feel like obeying your conditions?

After I cut out the poems and things, it concluded with,

They say if you pass this on, you will receive a miracle.

What miracle is that, Poindexter? Will AOL and Bill Gates share their fortune? No, that's a different e-mail. This one is worse, it turns the gospel of Christ into a superstition or wish fest. But also, it is a great demonstration of bad logic.

Addendum: This just in: 

Saint Theresa is known as the Saint of the Little Ways, meaning she  believed in doing the little things in life well and with great  love. She is represented by roses. May everyone who receives this message be blessed.
Theresa 's Prayer cannot be deleted.    

REMEMBER to make a wish before you  read the prayer. That's all you have to do. There is nothing  attached. Just share this with people and see what happens on  the fourth day...   

Sorry you have to  forward the message, but try not to break this, please.    

Prayer is one of the best free gifts  we receive. Read the prayer below.

Sorry, Selma, but this is too close to pagan superstition to please me, and degrading to the true gospel.

I hate it when "believers" act like that. If anyone wants to pass along something nice, then do it without the conditions or demands. And especially without the superstitions, capice? Anyway, I did get a nice picture out of it:

Evolution (of Lies) In Action

Professing themselves to be wise,
they became fools.

—Romans 1.22

Twitter "Tweets" are public.

Twitter said so.

This will have two examples. First, I was in an altercation with some vicious trolls on Twitter on Christmas the day after Christmas (and I seldom use Twitter these days, as I have said before). Mixed in with those were some who wanted to have a detailed intellectual discussion (a bad idea on Twitter, which is designed to limit you to 140 characters). One made the outlandish statement that "animals are born atheists". Anyone who is capable of rational thought and is not brainwashed by propaganda can easily see the absurdity of that remark. And, it seems, so can the OP, because his comment appears to have been deleted.

But I can show you my response to his remark:

 

That's right, Buttercup, I called you on it. You made a statement that is nothing but faith — no, it is nothing but wishful thinking for your position, and I didn't let it fly.

Now, here is an example of a failure of logic (this guy was trying to talk it out, eventually):

 

No, it does not mean that. This is a faulty premise as well as rushing to a conclusion and skipping many steps. I do not want to pick on this Alex, but I think he is showing the faulty reasoning that the others used as an excuse for venomous  personal attacks.

Note that they were happy engaged in deriding the Xtian, and yet, they did not have evidence for their claims! I simply said that they cannot prove that animals are born as atheists. See what I mean, that hate stupidifies people? By the way, note that he capitalizes atheist, but refuses to capitalize the names of other religions.

For that matter, this "discussion" came about because of the article I posted asking the question, "Does Atheism Cause Brain Damage?" If you go on Twitter and read the vicious, hateful, profane rants of "theealex" (and possibly "Chaotic Neurons" as well), you will see that they may very well have answered my question in the affirmative.

(Also, their double standard is easily evident. It is perfectly acceptable in their eyes to attack Christians and ridicule our faith, but if someone even dares to question their position, their logic, their mental state — watch out!)

Further research is in order.

Wait, I do have some further research! Remember, I did say that I have two examples. Here is the second one.

I made a statement at Atheist Central (the link is furnished if you want to read everything in its entirely, but I think the highlights cover the matter well enough) that, "I know it infuriates you that many atheists have not only come to Christ, but are experts in defending the faith against the unknowing and poor thinking God haters."

So, Captain Howdy steps up. (By the way, what is it with atheists and military ranks?) Cap'n demands, "Name one Christian on this entire blog that started out on this blog as a professing atheist and has since been converted by Ray's arguments. Just name one, Stormbringer." Edit: This is a Straw Man fallacy, as well as an argument from silence.

My response: "Why should I? You are changing the discussion. Hey, here's an idea: Let people speak for themselves, since I do not know the heart and soul of everyone who has posted here since this Weblog's inception."

Remember, I said that I knew of atheists who became Christians and defenders of the faith. I did not say that I knew of them on Ray Comfort's Weblog.

Some other resident hateful types chimed in, but because they have demonstrated their viciousness as well as irrationality in the past, I ignored them.

This appears out of sequence on the Weblog, but Cap said, "Just what I thought." Edit: Argument from Silence fallacy in its full glory.

So, my refusal to let him change the rules in the middle of the discussion, and not fall for his bait, is proof that I am wrong? Cafone.

Cap also stated, "Well how about because your entire argument was based upon the idea that these people exist. Now you are saying that you don't actually know if any of these people exist, which invalidates your entire argument." Edit: Another Straw Man. He had some other stuff that was not worth quoting.

At the conclusion of my reply to this (I mentioned the first example of bad logic, shown above), I stated, "In both your case and his, putting words in my mouth, then saying that my argument is invalid, is, frankly, a lie. Where do people like you learn logic?"

He has not replied.  I am not going to be like these people and conclude that his lack of reply has any meaning, however. He may be replying right this minute, in two weeks (I will not be checking back), or not at all. Not than any excuse for putting words in my mouth will matter, nor will this demonstration of horrible logic lose its merit if he does reply.

So, if someone insists that Christians are inherently stupid (conveniently ignoring the great intellectuals and scientists of the past and present, by the way), it is best to use actual logic. Excuses for hate and ridicule are not logic, capice? See Romans 1.19-22.

If I'm wrong about something, fine. But don't lie about others to build up your own fragile ego.

Alex Botten